Transcript

Auburn University Senate Meeting

September 6, 2005

 

 

Dr. Conner Bailey, Chair: Good afternoon, I’d like to call the September 6th meeting of the University Senate to order.  Let me remind senators when you come in I hope you have signed in at the back and if you are a substitute, please sign in for the senator you are substituting for.  We’ll follow normal practice of allowing anybody of any represented group, group represented in this Senate who wishes to address the assembly to do so when questions are before the body.  I would ask that in the event there are numbers of people who wish to speak that we provide opportunity to senators to go first and when you speak, please go to one of the microphones that are at the side.  That’s necessary so that we can capture the substance of what you’re saying on tape and that’s important for developing accurate minutes and transcripts of the meetings.  And I’d ask you also to please state your name and the unit that you are representing.

 

The minutes of the July 12th meeting of the University Senate have been posted on our website and distributed to you in advance.  I’d entertain a motion to approve these minutes.  Would you identify?  Howard Thomas moves, seconded by Charles Gross.  Are there any changes to the minutes that anyone wishes to bring forward?  Seeing none let me ask for a vote to accept these minutes.  All in favor say Aye.  Opposed, nay.  The Ayes have it.  Thank you very much.

 

Dr. Richardson is with us this afternoon and I’d like to invite Dr. Richardson forward at this time.

 

Dr. Ed Richardson, Interim President: Thank you, Dr. Bailey.  I’m sure you’ll be relieved that mine is relatively short.  Let me just hit on four basic issues.  The first one deals with our anticipated SACS visit, which will occur on the 18th of September.  Dr. Linda Glaze is here and is our point person in that regard.  I wanted to just comment just briefly on the three issues-this is not for reaccreditation-we’ve achieved all of that last December.  This is what I would call, and if I use the wrong term Dr. Glaze will correct me-a monitoring report to see if we are in fact doing what we said we would do, and so this is not something that is reviewing our accrediting process because that has been completed.  But it is a legitimate part and actually I think it is a very good idea to check after an institution, in this case such as Auburn, has been on probation.

 

I wanted to very briefly hit the three issues that were placed on the table and I’m going to hit the high points there.  The first one deals, is that the institution would give a progress report on the search for a President.  I think we would all know the question as to whether that is a standard or not, that is strictly a prerogative of the Board.  But that aside, we will fully comply with that.  I would point out to you that the Board of Trustees and I attended an Association of Governing Boards workshop, about a three or four hour workshop dealing with conducting such a search.  We also, of course, have documents and so forth that advise us in that regard.  I made my announcement last June.  I would think it’s time to start such a search.  There has been a chairperson, Mr. Miller, appointed to select a search firm.  I believe he will give his report during the September 16th Board Meeting and I think then we’ll see things move from that point forward.  So I would say that in terms of in my view, moving to meet the expectations of the search that would certainly constitute a progress report and I think we’ll see it pick up speed as we go forward.

 

The second one was a little more difficult but was completed prior to last December.  We were asked to have-and just one-external body to review the Board for possible conflicts of interest.  We completed that prior to the meeting but because they had a 15-day advance notice, those documents were not submitted to the Commission, so what we have done is to submit those three reports that I had conducted in terms of external review and have asked the Audit Committee to review if there are any violations of any policy, and if you’ll remember that was declared not be the case.  I would say to you that was a little more comprehensive and really back in September, October, November was a little tense but those deadlines have been met and I’m sure are fully included in the report.  I would simply remind you that of those three, there have been two that preceded that in the prior year, so that now gives us five separate reports on that one topic.

 

The third one deals with the, provide a report on the periodic evaluation of the President; of course, that is the term that was used; that is what has already been done and I think that you will see annual evaluations of the President as we go forward.  Again, we capitalized on the Association of Governing Boards’ documents provided for that very specific task and I believe we have fully met that.

 

I would like rather than to just go through the other two or three to just pause on the SACS topic and see if there are any questions in regard to SACS, probably I’ll relate to Dr. Glaze.  Thank you.  They’ll be…yes, ma’am, Virginia…

 

Dr. Virginia O’Leary, Psychology: Dr. Richardson, you said that you thought we would see the process of the Presidential Search speed up.  Is there a timeframe that will be presented for the Board at their September 16th meeting that will lay that out clearly?

 

Dr. Richardson: I don’t think there will be a specific time, but I will describe for you why I think it’s going to speed up.  First, they’re making a very diligent effort to get what is considered, and I know that’s people with whom they’ve been speaking, a very top nationally noted search firm.  I don’t know who will be selected but I think upon the selection of that person, then you start to get the notices and everything so I think it won’t move too quickly until we have a search firm and then I believe once that's selected and I would anticipate this fall, hopefully in September even, but I’m not sure, but hopefully in September that firm will be selected and at that time, then they would identify here’s a rough timeline as they see it.  But I do not know that is not something that I would be involved in the discussion but as far as the timeline I offered, it’s certainly no later than the end of the calendar year ’06.

 

Dr. O’Leary: For the calendar year ’06, for…

 

Dr. Richardson: For having someone to replace me.

 

Dr. O’Leary: For having someone to replace you.  Ok, I wasn’t sure…

 

Dr. Richardson: Ok, yeah, sorry about that.  I forgot you were a world traveler this past summer and you may not have had the benefit of my speech, so…

 

Dr. Cindy Brunner, Department of Pathobiology: I’d like to follow up on the comments that you made with regard to the report on Periodic Review of the President’s performance.  You said that you anticipated that there would be an annual review and my question is:  Do you also anticipate that that review would take the form of the most recent review, which the process was carried out by a subcommittee of three members of the Board itself or do you expect that that review might be more comprehensive and involve other parties?

 

Dr. Richardson: The latter.  I anticipate that.  I think timelines and just meeting that and not having experience led to, really I think there was three trustees appointed to gather information and conduct such an evaluation.  I think any evaluation should be extended to involve those who have direct knowledge of the performance of the individual beyond the trustees, and that would be my recommendation.  Now again, let me make it clear, that’s not an issue that I decide.  So that’s an issue for the Board solely.  I’m just offering my opinion.

 

Ok, the second topic that I wish to deal with relate to the Board meeting.  I would remind everyone that we’ve changed the formats in terms of times and so we wanted to make sure that you were aware of those.  The Committee meetings will actually be held on the Thursday, September the 15th and then the Board meeting will start around 9 o’clock, we’ll be more specific as we get a little closer, but I would think 9 o’clock on Friday morning, but that will not be Committee meetings.  That will be straight into the heart of the session and we should finish by 11 or 11:30.  So instead of coming and expecting that to be in the afternoon, I wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of that change.  And that will be consistent for the rest of the meetings.  Committee meetings on Thursday preceding and then the meeting on that Friday morning, and there are several reasons for that, but unless you have to ask me that, if it would be of any interest to you. 

 

I wanted to call to your attention two items that are on the agenda for September the 15th, which is the Thursday preceding the meeting.  That will be held in the conference center and I’m sure we’ll get the room a little bit later.  But there are two workshops that are scheduled right now to start at 1:00 and another around 2:30.  We’ll just have to, and we’ll have the specific times as we get past this coming week.  It will be somewhere very close to that time.  The first one deals with one of the initiatives that I’ve asked staff to review and that is cost management.  What they are proposing to do and we’ve got an AUM representative, Jacqulyn Roberts, and Don Large and John Mouton involved from our side of the street and they have identified topics that would be reviewed, or areas for review and they will identify those during this meeting.  What we’re really asking from the Board at that time is ‘Do you have any other areas that you think deserve review?’ and at that point we will have identified the topics and then we will proceed from there.  And we will not answer any questions and when I say questions, we won’t attempt to say ‘Do we lease too many cars?’ or something like that.  If that is an issue, then we will go forward and examine to see what our expenditures are and what perhaps can be done.  I bring that up because I would say for the vast majority of it, it would deal with administrative matters, I don’t foresee it getting into that area, but I think inevitably it will be considered as we look at Academic Program Review.  I want to not alarm you in that regard, I don’t foresee that being an issue, and I really would see it more in terms of staffing.  We’ve had our SACS report of last February, which indicated some of our colleges are understaffed, some are overstaffed and we’ll be looking at those issues as we go forward.  So cost management will be discussed first to be followed by the Strategic Plan.  I again, would encourage your active involvement and many, if not all of you have been, and I commend you for it.  It’s one of those things that this is your chance and if you don’t actively participate, you’re going to be stuck with it.  So I would say to you in this regard what the purpose of this workshop will be is to one, to have somewhat of a review, and I’ve already sent the Board a very thick packet on the forums, a summary of the forums that were held by Dr. Sauser.  Now I’ve also submitted samples of other institutions that have already completed theirs, so the format would be at least they would be aware of the format that is commonly used and then there is some background information that the Board requested.  But, making a long story short in this regard, after describing what has been done, we are attempting then to involve the Board of Trustees in a very open discussion as to the direction of the University that is part of the role of Trustees.

 

 I wanted to make sure that we’re together here and I think this will work very smoothly.  I do not anticipate problems but just like any other chain, there is a potential for issues to arise.  If there was one thing, I’ve said this publicly and I will repeat, if there was one task that you would put on a Board of Trustees’ desk and that was all that Board could do, this would be it.  So the Board will really approve a Strategic Plan.  What I’m hoping is that we will provide is one, a much broader knowledge of the university-some of the fine points that are left to you that even in my case would be unaware of and certainly trustees would be unaware of in some cases but we would want to be sure to inform them in a way that would lead the Board to establish a Strategic Plan that would be acceptable to all of us at least as best we can.  I would anticipate that plan, the structure of the plan, being placed on the table for the November 18th meeting and I would ask that the Board then review it and be prepared to approve it during the February 3rd meeting.  So we’ll have after it being placed on the table in mid-November we’ll have until early February to decide what if anything the Board wishes to do.  I think this can be a very healthy undertaking in that it will clearly define priorities and directions, it will drive some of the budget process, it will provide for annual evaluations to see in fact we are adhering to what we call a strategic plan, and what we intend to make a strategic plan and as we discussed this morning, this is really an attempt to consolidate a number of efforts for strategic plan that have been conducted in reports, commissions, and so forth and really try to, not only review those reports but to provide for future focus for us for this plan.  So the strategic plan will be placed on the table in November, November the 18th, hopefully approved on February the 3rd, and then we would move to start with our operational plans and we’re going to have to move fairly quickly the first time around, because operationally that’s what we would say as an institution, that we intend to do to address whatever the priorities that the Board approves. 

 

I would also say the reason we need to move quickly is because the budget process will start at about that time.  The legislative session will have already started two weeks before.  So we will need to make sure as best we can we will have the operational plans at least roughly worked out so that we can affect the budget for the following year.  I would then say then in conclusion on that during the June meeting, and I have to admit that I didn’t look that one up so I can’t tell you when, but sometime in June we will meet, of ’06, and at that time the President of this campus and the Chancellor, as he is called at this time, of AUM will then give annual reports and so that will be the first step toward issuing annual reports that will deal with the strategic plan.  And you might say well ‘What kind of annual reports that will be?’  Well, it’s going to be very brief obviously because not much will have happened at that point but we will have identified the criteria, we will have some background information at least and perhaps in one or two areas we will be able to say some progress has been made.   I would point out to you that the February 3rd meeting is on the Montgomery campus, so that’s a little bit inconvenient because this is an issue that is of great importance to all of us but that’s just the way we have scheduled it for a very long time, so would remind you of that.  I would stop at that point in terms of the workshops; of course, the agenda will be on the web shortly, we’re getting ready to pull that together and go to print sometime this week.  Anything else on the initiatives?

 

Dr. Bailey: Any questions at this phase on the initiatives for Dr. Richardson?

 

Dr. Richardson: Great.  The legislative…Richard?  I wouldn’t have a meeting unless Dr. Penaskovic asked me a hard question.  I was waiting for it, Rich, so thank you.

 

Dr. Richard Penaskovic, Chair-elect: Dr. Richardson, there’s a great deal of apprehension, even anxiety, among faculty about post-tenure review.  You and I have discussed this matter ourselves.  Would you care to share with the rest of the Senators your rationale for post-tenure review at this particular point and time?

 

Dr. Richardson:  Sure.  Thank you, Dr. Penaskovic.  That’s a fair question.  That’s another initiative along with academic program review.  Just to give you a timeline and then go more to the heart of your question.  I anticipate during the November 18th meeting that criteria for conducting such reviews will be placed on the table.  So we’ll be able to have those hopefully by that time.  The other timeline that I think that will be of interest is that we will then use the rest of the academic year to do what I would call a pilot, that is, to let’s see if these criteria will work before they really get into it and then it would go into the fall.  Part of, and now to your question, Dr. Penaskovic, the reason that the agenda I offered to the Board last June was more extensive than I originally planned, if you do remember, originally there were six initiatives.  As we go through this whole process, one of, if we identified one of the major themes that I’m trying to establish, which I think will serve my successor very well is that the idea that the President and assistants and faculty and all within the university, do maintain institutional control and I’m not saying that I’m concerned about that, but obviously that is an issue if you boil it down in my view, for the SACS problem last year, that was really the bottom line in my opinion.  And so I would like then, to make sure that the institution is driving the agenda.  Now, why do the post-tenure review?  As I have had discussion with individual trustees over these several months, several things popped up: workload, class scheduling, all of those and here’s why post-tenure review popped up.  And the reason that I’ve added those three and specifically to answer Dr. Penaskovic’s question regarding post-tenure review is that I knew this was going to come up in the discussion.  You have two choices in that regard: one, to admit you didn’t do a thorough review of the issues, and therefore the trustees are back telling us what to do; or two, that you are trying to be deceptive and I assure you there have been no problems with the trustees telling us what to do.  And I assure you, I am not going to be deceptive.  So I really felt that we need to put it on the table and as you look at the vast majority of institutions do it in some way but here is more importantly what I would add to this part-I believe that if we, and I’m not involved in this, this is really an issue for the Provost-but if we identify the criteria for such post-tenure review, then we drive the process.  I do not foresee this being in the Board bylaws.  That would give us sufficient flexibility to make amendments, which we would inevitably do as time goes along.  So as I would say then as we push the criteria forward, one we’re saying again, yes, we can deal with the issues.  Two, we have a process here that we think reflects a comprehensive university with people in many different roles.  For the outsider, and that would include some trustees, you would think that how many classes you teach is the sum total of your work and as most of you know, that is not an accurate description.  So I would say the intention then is to make sure that we’ve asked and answered the question that we have established criteria that we feel are legitimate and that we maintain flexibility to change.  Finally, every week you read an article on various aspects of legislative bodies that are attempting to effect accountability, if you will, upon some phase of higher education.  I had such a discussion as late as today.  And so I would say to you in that regard, this again is an attempt by the institution to effect changes that most people think need to be made but by maintaining control in the process.  I think if I did not do this, and it came up later, then we would not have nearly the opportunity to design it as we would like.  I think I could see consultants coming in and advising the Board and then we would go from there.  I believe it can be done effectively and we can do it without regret.  I think it would also serve, and this is one other area I should add to this, we’ve got tremendous people on this faculty and administration, too.  I believe as I’ve said publicly, that this institution has done remarkably well in spite of all the turmoil over the last 20 or so years.  And I hope we will have a clear and solid reward system as post-tenure review would reflect high performance, we would be able in tangible ways to reward and recognize those many people that we have that do tremendous jobs.  So that’s my answer, if that’s ok.  Dr. Brunner?

 

Dr. Cindy Brunner, Department of Pathobiology: Dr. Richardson, this question that I have pertains to your comments about the first workshop that would be held on Thursday, September 15th with the Board…

 

Dr. Richardson: Cost Management.

 

Dr. Brunner: Excuse me?

 

Dr. Richardson: Cost Management.

 

Dr. Brunner: That’s right.  Cost Management workshop.  You said it would mainly deal with administrative matters but it would relate to academic program review in that it would deal with staffing and you referred to reports of over or understaffing.  I’m wondering if those reports to which you referred were ever made available to the public.  I know we’ve all heard various rumors about colleges having 2.8 times the number of faculty they need, etc.  Is that information available?

 

Dr. Richardson: Well, the reports to which I referred are, because that really was identified in the SACS’ tenure study.  They identified, for instance, Liberal Arts was under so much and that where I think the 2.8 really came from the College of Agriculture by one of our staff people in which there’s considerable debate as to whether that accurately reflects that or not.  And so what I would think as you look at in terms of faculty loads, number of students, that sort of thing, I believe then that we’ll be able to say in terms of cost management, that if we’re going to continue to have classes that are relatively small, that we’re going to need X number of professors and that’s part of it.  You’ve just got to do it.  Or if we find some that do have, maybe not 2.8 but if they have 15 more than the student body would reflect and other demands, then I would think we would have to address that as well.  But the one to which I referred was the SACS report which identified two colleges, I do remember Liberal Arts and I think maybe Business was as well, but it’s in that report.

 

Dr. Rik Blumenthal, Chemistry/Biochemistry:  I have two questions, one spurred by what you’ve just said in your last comment.  When you say addressing the issue of excess, 15 excess faculty, most of the faculty of that 15 are tenured and have careers here and intend to be here another 20 years or so.  Are you talking to slim down by retirements and in a very slow process or are you actually contemplating finding some mechanism, such as post-tenure review, to go through that department and wipe out 15 tenured faculty to reach some ideal staff size?

 

Dr. Richardson: The former, not the latter.  I do not foresee any heavy-handed staffing issues except on the other side, which is to say, if you have justification for additional ones, then we should try to put that into our budget to meet those requirements.  I would say through attrition, in some cases if you have skilled people that could fit into other assignments, then that might be a possibility.  But as far as saying to you we’ve got too many Biochemistry people and you’re the last hired, so you’re out of here-no, that’s not compatible nor do I see us going there.  But again, the only reason I brought up academic program review is that as we look at staffing, as we look at the number of assistant deans or whatever we look at, I just wanted you to know that would also be considered, but primarily cost management deals with Facilities, Construction, indebtedness and those type of issues.

 

Dr. Blumenthal: My other issue, my other point, is really, or comment, rather is really, I’d like to make is that I’ve heard you mention and I’ve seen in articles where you’ve mentioned where it comes to accountability, what can you say to the legislators when they say they have this opinion that we on the faculty are overpaid fat cats who don’t work hard enough.  Comment is, you should be out there telling them what we really are, not talking to the newspapers about our “deadwood”, of which I think you’ll find there will be very, very little identified.

 

Dr. Richardson: I agree.

 

Dr. Blumenthal: I think, and specifically, when somebody asks you, you know, are they, when someone makes a comment to you about overpaid professors, why didn’t you just pick me as an example?  My last graduate student, finished last year, he’s working for Intel, is making $120,000 a year.  I’m at Auburn University, I’m the one who taught him to do that job, and I’m being paid $60,000 a year from this institution.  So somebody says to you, I’m not working hard enough, explain to them that I’m taking a $60,000 pay cut for the honor of teaching their students.  We all, everyone in this room, is taking similar, maybe not as large, but similar pay cuts for the honor of teaching the students of the state of Alabama.  And it ought to be made public.  My salary certainly is.  I don’t know that he wants his, but I’ve done it anyway.  We are being way underpaid.  You go out and you ask Chemical Engineering News and you ask what the average chemical engineer makes, and then you compare it to the average salary in the Chemical Engineering Department, you’ll find that our faculty in Chemistry and Chemical Engineering are receiving somewhere between 50-70% of what their colleagues in the business world are receiving.  And we’re, this should be out there in the news.  When you’re asked about these issues, why aren’t you out there saying in Chemistry and Chemical Engineering, our faculty are being paid at only 70% of the rate of people with the equivalent experience?  I’m being paid at 50% of the rate of the student when one year experience when I have 16, with my PhD.

 

Dr. Richardson: I understand.  John, do you want to say something.  I’m not asking, but you’re welcome to do.

 

Dr. John Heilman, Provost: Just a thought.  Rik, I take your point.  But one thing that Dr. Richardson is saying is that one of the Board objectives during the time of the commission was to get faculty salaries to, as close as possible, to regional averages in peer disciplines and what you offer is one comparison.  I accept that upfront.  It’s what we make as faculty members compared with what we would make out in industry and we know for the most part that there are large disparities there, but I do think it’s fair to point out that progress has been made in recent years in getting our salaries up to levels comparable to, and I’m not sure what the most recent percentages are, but I think they’re in the upper 90% of regional averages by discipline and so I think how you answer the question depends somehow on how you ask it.  I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t ask the question the way you have.  I take your point completely, but there’s another way of asking the question, too.  That’s it.

 

Dr. Richardson: I would say, if I could just respond to your question more directly-we have a tendency, and I’ve caught myself since I’ve been here more than a year and a half-to talk about the inner workings of a university as if everyone else is listening, and they’re not.  And you could pick other state institutions, state agencies, and you could make the same comparison.  Be assured they do not restrict it to faculty; they say the same thing about me.  They say the same thing about administrators, so here’s the deal: if we have workload policies in which we identify clearly established standards, say, one’s for research, one’s for graduate students, office time, all the other things that will end up being in there, then I am for the first time in a position to say, yes, but right now all I can say to you is that like anything else in life, those handful, those less than half a dozen that create bad impressions or say things that would lead you to believe that they’re almost flaunting the workload, that’s what people are reacting to.  And you could take the same thing about youths or politicians or anything else and take the bottom 5% and you would wonder whether you would want to keep them.  So I would say to you, getting this information and agreeing on the standards, which I’m going to leave that to you and the Provost, will enable me to be more supportive in that regard.  So I would say to you, you must recognize that when we come into a legislative session, there are issues you have to deal with.  They’re not going to sit down here and listen to a long story about faculty or administrators or coaches or anybody else and so what I’m saying to you that if they raise a question to me, then I’m going to be able to say ‘Here’s our standard and 80% of our people’ or whatever percentage it turns out to be-I think they will be better informed as to what constitutes a workload rather than how many classes are you teaching this semester, which is basically as I said-I’ve served on the university Board of Trustees-and that’s basically the criteria that is used-how many classes are you teaching and not the rest.  And I think we’ve got to do a better job of educating.

 

Dr. Bailey: Thank you.

 

Gary Martin, Curriculum & Teaching: I had a question or comment related to the post tenure review.  Having been part of such a process at another institution, where in fact, it wasn’t cumulative, it was proactive developmental, very supportive of faculty, I would suggest then, in addition to looking at criteria, it’s also important to look for goals.  Why is this being done?  How is this going to be used?  I heard echoes of that in previous comments.  And also to really look at the criteria carefully and I’m just wondering, you’re setting a target of November 18th.  How are you going to get the faculty buy in and the faculty involvement in that timeframe to be able to put forth something that really does represent the university, including the faculty, well?

 

Dr. Richardson: That certainly, Dr. Martin, a very good question. I hope that-I’ve said this before but I’ll just reiterate that again-basically what I’ve done is identified some issues that I know will come up and therefore I am opening the door for us to fashion the answer.  I do not consider myself qualified to enter into that discussion and that’s why I’ve delegated it to the Provost and others and will come forward in the recommendation.  You’re going to see periodically timelines; I mean we had a change in the timeline on the institute, which was another initiative.  So we’re going to work as hard as we can and we’ll, we’re not going to rush to meet some artificial deadline.  So if we needed a little more time, that’s not going to be phased one way or another, but yeah, if we’re talking about we want to think about it another year, sure, six months, then obviously that won’t work.  Be assured that was a target date and I leave that to the Provost to answer and I’m not involved in that discussion so I hope that the faculty will be fully involved.  John?

 

Dr. Heilman: Dr. Richardson, I think the questions and suggestions that were made by Dr. Martin are very good ones, and particularly in terms of developmental uses for a process such as this, we know because-and we in we means both in my office and Conner and the Steering Committee-have been looking at a range of systems that are in place.  Development is an important part in any of those.  With response to the specific question, which is ‘On what basis might we hope for faculty input?’, the way in which I’ve tried to address that, working with Conner as chair of the Senate, is to ask the Steering Committee to provide leadership in developing proposals and Conner, you’re in the process of doing that so I hope that will give the process a sensitivity to the kinds of issues that you are raising and a legitimacy that really an administrative effort doesn’t always seem to have at this institution.

 

Dr. Richardson: I would say again to Dr. Martin and others, this is not an issue that is being driven at this time by anyone other than this President putting it on the table, because I know it will come up later.  No trustees are bringing this up, nobody saying ‘Do it’ or that sort of thing.  So I really believe that now that we have an opportunity, we can establish the criteria, if it gets down to crunch time, we can flex a little bit to make sure that we have some comfort level.  As far as involving the faculty, like you said, isn’t there committees and others that are…just the, I heard you say Steering…

 

Sadik Tuzun, Entomology & Plant Pathology: I think the idea of going through a critical academic review is very healthy.  Every institution should go through that every five years, every seven years, every ten years and because the time is changing.  Science is changing, technology is changing, and we have to keep up with these technologies and what I am looking at now, at the distribution of the faculty in Auburn University, like just as you said before, academic program review, and if we reestablish the goals for academic program review, I think the problem of post tenure review process will be resolved, because many faculty here can teach or do research in many different areas, including their own, with maybe a little bit training, with maybe a little bit, maybe a year’s sabbatical.  But you have the faculty, you have the power behind you and I think that your initial, you first came here with five proposals which had not included academic review, if we go through those processes which introduced academic program review, I personally think that we absolve ourselves of the post tenure process, the post tenure review process.

 

Dr. Richardson: Thank you.  And I hope it turns out, that was my intention.  Let me just, I know you’re about to gong me here, let me just hit a couple of things quickly.  Legislative effort, I’ll just make that very brief, that does reflect somewhat to the prior conversation.  I wanted to make sure that you understand that Sid McAnnally is with us at this point and Sid, we’re very glad you’re with us full-time.  I would say to you that we will be sharing an agenda with the University of Alabama again.  The revenues have exceeded initial predictions, so that is certainly healthy.  This is, we’re getting ready for an election year, which is not as productive sometimes as you would like, but I think last year, and I won’t go into that because a lot of people worked hard on that, that was a success.  We conveyed two things: One, a very substantial increase in allocations for Auburn University.  Two, it conveyed that Auburn and Alabama would stay together and would be a force to deal with in the future.  Most people thought we would fold right up to the last day, that is, Alabama would go its way and Auburn would go its way but that did not happen.  And I would say that why that supplemental is so critical to us, because that is where we would fold if we were going to fold.  So I would say for a second year of that same success with the additional support we hope to have from others that we bring into the discussion I believe, and I am quite confident that we will have at least comparable success for next year-no pressure, Sid-but I do think that we will be reasonably successful and I think that will cement the relationship in such a way that it’s likely to stick that as a new person comes on, then he or she then will buy a little time to bridge that relationship to make sure we continue on.  So in terms of legislation, keep in mind this is an election year, starting in January, I think January the 10th, so it starts earlier than before and therefore we’re going to have to work very hard this fall to touch the bases that we did last year but again I’m optimistic. 

 

Very quickly, Katrina’s efforts and I’m sure for others will deal with that.  John, do you have that event on yours?

 

Dr. Heilman: I’ve got a few notes that I can speak on.

 

Dr. Richardson: Ok, well let me just leave that to John.  I want to thank all of you, many of you sent emails, made suggestions, I want to thank-I see Dan here from Building Sciences, who had two students who came up with designs to use the containers and others.  I know some of the colleges have started to accept students, so we’ll continue to work in that regard.  So next week, or this week I guess, when we do play Mississippi State, the Red Cross will be available to start collections.  We did ask them last Saturday, but they were not prepared at that point to do that so we’ll start our efforts there.  I do want to thank you for your suggestions.  I also want to commend you-I’m not sure how much value the U.S. News is in terms of whether we’re 38th or 35th or if that makes any difference or not, but nevertheless, it makes a difference to a lot of people who read these articles to know that we’ve done as well as we have and I want to thank you for that.  I think that is certainly something that at least as we creep up, as we deal with issues such as alumni contributions, that I think you’ll see us continue to be at least in a tier that’s very respectable. 

 

Secondly, I wanted to call to your attention a survey, if you’re not familiar with that, in which they identified all the colleges and universities within Alabama and surveyed a vast number of students as to which one they would first choose and Auburn won going away.  And that was again a sign that what you have brought to the table means a great deal out there-that conveys that message better than other ways that we could because the vast number-several thousand people-chose Auburn first and Alabama was a distant second and then the others were somewhat down the row. 

 

And finally, I would call your attention that during the Board meeting on the 16th, we will recognize several people, but we certainly, as I understand it, have three Fulbright Scholars to recognize at the appropriate time and serving in that means a great deal, too.  So that’s my report and I’ve answered all the questions.

 

Dr. Bailey: Thank you, Dr. Richardson.  Dr. Richardson covered a number of points that I was going to make.  One important one was the timing of the Board meeting.   There are two workshops, as Dr. Richardson said.  In addition, I think the budget of the University is also going to be covered and the budget is probably a matter of some importance, too.  We’re not anticipating any changes from what was brought forward earlier in the year at the June 8th meeting, I believe. 

 

At the beginning of fall semester, I sent to senators a welcome back message updating faculty who were out of town on developments that had taken place over the summer.  We’ve discussed at some length here already Post-tenure Review, the development of Strategic Plan, Academic Program Review and what has become known, or what has been known as the Ag Initiative.  Dr. Heilman is going to talk on this latter topic toward the end of the agenda today and he’s also at that time going to give us an update on efforts that’s the university has taken on issues related to Katrina and disaster response.

 

Each of these four topics, Post-tenure Review and the like, are going to be addressed in this body and also probably at the University Faculty Meeting on October 18th.  I anticipate that will be an opportunity for open discussion of Post-tenure Review and the proposals that may be coming out of the university Steering Committee.  We don’t have anything to present at this time and so we’re not on the agenda for today.  Regarding this Post-tenure Review, I’m pleased to hear Dr. Richardson say we have some flexibility.  Steering Committee is moving forward in reviewing what other universities have been doing, what has been the experience at these other universities as well.  The Steering Committee is undertaking this task with no, I think it’s fair to say, joy, but as a sense of responsibility, understanding that if we don’t do this, we will have a policy given to us and we felt it more responsible to put our efforts to developing something that we could all live with.  There will be an open forum that the AAUP is going to hold the day after the next Senate meeting, I believe is the schedule and the topic will be Post-tenure Review and a couple weeks after that we’ll have this on the University Faculty Meeting on October 18th.

 

The Ag Initiative, as I said, Dr. Heilman will address and I leave that to him for now.  The Strategic Plan has also passed through a second phase and Dr. Bill Sauser will come back before this body, perhaps at the next meeting if there is sufficient detail to the Strategic Plan document that we can have a useful discussion. 

 

The Academic Program Review which is chaired by Art Chappelka of Forestry and Wildlife Sciences, they’ve been meeting regularly through the spring and summer and continuing into the fall and we will come forward-I will ask Art to come forward and report to this body as soon as we have anything of substance to discuss.  I’ve written most of the chairs of Senate committees-there’s a couple that I’ve not yet gotten to-with specific charges for the coming year.  One of these relates to the Non-tenured Track Instructors Committee and noting that there’s been an expansion in the number of non-tenured track faculty, not simply instructors but are faculty, in particular, clinical faculty, also research faculty-these are two tracks of non-tenured track faculty that was developed after the Handbook was originally written and after the charge to this committee was developed.  I’ve asked this committee to look into the needs of these faculty and also into an issue related to faculty status among certain faculty in the Alabama Cooperative Extension System. 

 

Dr. Richardson mentioned SACS is coming to town in a couple, just over two weeks and that Linda Glaze is coordinating that visit and he’s reviewed all the points that they’re coming to Auburn to discuss.

 

Those cover my comments.  Are there any questions of the Chair before we move on to the agenda?  Seeing none, I invite Kathryn Flynn to come forward please.  The first of the action items refers to Appointments to Senate Committees.  The Senate Rules Committee has been working hard and I think has completed the appointments and recommendations to this body.  Kathryn…

 

Kathryn Flynn, Secretary-Elect: Thanks, Conner.  On behalf of the Rules Committee, I’m bringing forward a list of people that have been nominated and that have agreed to serve on committees and we’ve brought their names forward for review for you to approve their serving on these committees.  Since this is coming from a committee, there is no requirement for a second.  If anybody has any comments, discussion, questions?

 

Dr. Bailey: Is the body ready to vote on adoption of these recommendations, these nominations to committees?  All those in favor, signify by saying Aye.  Opposed, nay.  The Ayes have it.

 

Dr. Flynn: Thank you.  The second item, we have two revisions relative to promotion and tenure.  These again are brought to you from the Rules Committee-I’m sorry, Steering Committee.  I apologize-wrong committee.  Too many committees!  I’ll read this resolution:

 

The justification for this-I’ll go through that first: currently there are no professors in the clinical track and only one professor in the research track.  Allowing a tenured faculty member with knowledge of these tracks to serve as the standby member has been the practice in the past, although that is not something that is spelled out in the Handbook.  So this Handbook change would make policy consistent with practice.  This is language that we looked at during the July meeting and we were asked to revisit it by Sandra Clark-Lewis, who is clinical faculty’s, I guess, unofficial spokesperson and so they have looked over this current language and the resolution is as follows.  Should I read the current language first?  Would you like me to go ahead and read…I don’t have to read it?

 

Dr. Bailey: Not the current language.

 

Dr. Flynn: Ok.  What we’re asking is the following:

 

Any academic year in which there is no clinical faculty member on the committee, the resource person for the clinical track will be appointed as a standby member of the committee.  Any academic year in which there is no research faculty member on the committee, a resource person for the research track will be appointed as a standby member of the committee.  The resource person for the clinical track will be a faculty member holding the rank of professor who is in the clinical track or in the event that no professor in the clinical track is available to serve on this committee, the resource person will be a tenured faculty member who works in a department or school that has clinical track faculty.  The resource person for the research track will be a faculty member holding the rank of professor who is in the research track or in the event that no professor in the research track is available to serve on this committee, the resource person will be a tenured faculty member who works in a department or school who has research track faculty.

 

And as a representative of the Steering Committee, I’d like to make a motion that this be accepted.

 

Dr. Bailey: Is there any discussion?

 

Tony Moss, Biological Sciences: I’m sorry, I might be a bit slow, I’m coming down with a cold, but what committee are you talking about?  Are you saying any committees that might be appropriate for non-tenured track faculty to be in or is this some other

 

Dr. Flynn: This is strictly for Promotion-the P&T Committee.

 

Dr. Moss: Oh, ok, excuse me, I’m sorry.  Thank you.

 

Dr. Flynn: Is there any other discussion on this resolution?

 

Dr. Bailey: Are we ready to come to a vote then?  Those in favor, please signify by saying Aye.  Those opposed, nay.  The Ayes have it.  Thank you.

 

Dr. Flynn: The next resolution stipulates that the committee membership, the P&T Committee membership, must include at least 9 tenured faculty members, not 7 as currently stated.  Justification for this is that the change would ensure that there are always nine tenured faculty members to deliberate on tenure issues.  The revisions suggested or proposed is:

 

Promotion and Tenure: The Promotion and Tenure Committee shall consist of the Provost as chair and eleven faculty members, at least nine of which will be tenured faculty.  The faculty members will be from the tenure track faculty, the clinical faculty or the research faculty.  Non-tenure track clinical faculty members and non-tenure track research faculty members will not vote on tenure.

 

Would anybody like to comment on this resolution?  Discuss?

 

Dr. Bailey: Is there any discussion?  Are you ready to…Virginia?

 

Dr. Virginia O’Leary, Psychology: I just want to point out that this body deliberated for a very long time before instituting the clinical track and I think it was important to do that and I come from a department where we use that track and need to, it’s appropriate given that we train mental health practitioners and by expanding the number of tenure track faculty serving on the P&T Committee, I am concerned that we are further disadvantaging those people who come up through the clinical track route for promotion to Associate and Full Professor, at least until such time as the reason and criteria for promotion in those categories becomes part of the institutional fabric of Auburn University, and I just want to point that out because it now makes it even more difficult and it’s my understanding that this, at this level, has not gone all that smoothly and I certainly understand that selecting someone to be a representative does move in the direction of trying to accommodate for this awkwardness, which I presume is temporary, but temporary can last a very long time and in the meantime we have colleagues who have every reasonable expectation they should be moving along this clinical track apace.

 

Dr. Bailey: Cindy?

 

Dr. Cindy Brunner, Pathobiology: I’d like to speak in favor of this change.  In fact, I think I may have been one of the people who encouraged the change and I would like, I think the previous speaker is interpreting this change as an increase in the number of tenured faculty on the Promotion and Tenure Committee.  If I’m not mistaken, what we’re actually doing is restoring the original number of faculty on the committee, which was nine prior to the inclusion of clinical track faculty and research track faculty and when prompted by the Secretary of this body to look at the history of the number 7, which is the current version, we all on the Rules Committee went back and read the minutes of the Senate meetings at which these deliberations took place and what transpired was when the Senate approved the change to include clinical track faculty, a clinical track faculty representative and a research track faculty representative on the P&T Committee, there was no stipulation at all about the maximum number of those non-tenured track spots that there might be on the P&T Committee and thus a threshold or minimum number of tenured members on the committee.  So it was possible that the committee could be overwhelming comprised of non-tenured track faculty, which obviously wouldn’t, I don’t think, would be what most of the tenured track faculty would want.  So we proposed some threshold, which turned out to be at least 7 and I suggested that we ought to restore that number to the 9, which it was before we put clinical and research track faculty on the committee in the first place.  So what we’re not saying that we want to reduce the number of clinical or research representatives.  What we want to say is that we would like there to be 9 tenured members of this committee, which is what it was before we had clinical and research tracks at Auburn University.

 

Dr. Bailey: Is there any other discussion?  Rik?

 

Dr. Rik Blumenthal, Chemistry/Biochemistry: Maybe I’ve just confused myself and answer this quickly.  If somebody, if there are no research faculty to be appointed on there from the previous statement and we’re going to have these replacements, that also was the P&T Committee, will those be additional tenured faculty voting and deliberating on tenure, or would those people be restricted to the role of the untenured clinical track and research track faculty that they are there to replace?  Or have we not considered that?

 

Dr. Flynn:  We’ve considered the role of the clinical and research faculty and correct me if I’m wrong, Patricia, but I believe that if it were a person who was clinical or research track, it would be left to at the current time the provost as chair of the committee as to whether they would participate in all of the promotion debates and votes or not.  And I assume that would be the same for this individual that it would be left up to the provost.  I don’t think we really spent a lot of time debating that, so I think it would be probably again left up to the views of the provost as chair.

 

Dr. Bailey: If I may, for information purposes, in our discussions with Tom Hanley when he was provost, it was handled variably.  In one case with a research professor, my understanding was that person was a resource person who sat in and took part in discussions of P&T, I don’t know about vote, but the case of the individual representing clinical faculty, the person only came for discussions on clinical faculty promotions.  We need to regularize this clearly.  Neither of these resolutions entirely does that.  We have spoken with Dr. Heilman on this matter and he is new to this job as we all know and I guess that’s about as far as I want to go, other than saying that we’ll work through it in this coming year.  We need to have something reutilized and I’m hoping in the not too distant future, we will have full clinical professors in numbers, and numbers of full research professors as well, so that these issues will no longer be relevant.  John?

 

Dr. John Heilman, Provost: Thank you very much, Conner.  Those are very fair questions and as you have pointed out, Conner, we’ve already had some discussions about how is that going to be worked out rather than try to figure out, here on my feet, ok what will really be the best thing to do.  What I would like to suggest is, this is one of the numerous areas in which, I think, the representative role of the Senate leadership can be extremely valuable to the Provost and I would encourage those who have views on these matters, if I may say so, Conner, to convey them to the Senate leadership and I can assure you I will pay careful attention to what is being said.  I think this is a case of, which as you know, you and I talked over the weekend by email about the Federalist Papers, and maybe in one of them, I think it’s Federalist Ten, there’s phrasing about refining and enlarging, I think, the Senate leadership, and refining and enlarging the views that come to it and I look to you to perform that role.

 

Dr. Bailey: Are there further questions?  If not, are we ready to move to a vote?  All those in favor, please signify by saying Aye.  Opposed, nay.  Thank you.

 

Dr. Flynn: The next item on the agenda is a revisit of an issue and we’ve come to you with a suggested change in a resolution dealing with intimate relations.  The reasoning for this is that this language was approved in March 2004 and when the Staff Council and A&P Assembly were aware of the wording, they asked for us to reconsider some of it.  They felt like while outright prohibition of intimate relations between students and faculty was understandable and appropriate, they had a little bit more trouble with the same type of prohibition in the case of adult employees and felt that the existing harassment policy and the nepotism policy possibly with some tweaking would be enough to cover the issues that they saw.  So the resolution that I bring forward to you this afternoon is from Steering and it states:

 

Whereas, the University Senate on March 9, 2004 passed a resolution on intimate relations; and

 

Whereas subsequent review by Staff Council and the Administrative and Professional Assembly resulted in a request that the proposed intimate relations policy be revised;

 

Therefore, the University Senate recommends that the following policy (the March 9, 2004 resolution as modified below) on intimate relations be adopted by Auburn University.  It reads:

 

Auburn University prohibits all faculty, administrators and supervisors, including graduate teaching assistants, from pursuing or engaging in romantic or sexual relationships with students, both graduate and undergraduate, whom they are currently supervising or teaching.

 

We would strike the next sentence and finish with:

 

Violations should be promptly reported to the University’s Affirmative Action Office.  Violations of this policy will be addressed through appropriate disciplinary action.

 

Dr. Bailey: Resolution coming from the Steering Committee; does not require a second.  Is there any discussion?

 

Dr. Ruth Crocker, History: I understand that this revision is the result of deliberation by the A&P and Staff Council and I respectfully have studied the wording here but I still have to say that I have strong reservations about this, cutting this out the way it has been shown to us here, because I do feel that this is a workplace policy and I think that a sexual affair in a workplace is going to have repercussions, for example, supervisors giving differential rewards or punishing or rewarding, in other words, it’s going to mess up the workplace so I just wonder if we could instead of for the bit that is crossed out, perhaps maybe this is a friendly amendment, suggest that we put in that Auburn University strongly discourages instead of forbids, strongly discourages faculty, administrators, and supervisors from engaging in sexual relations- I don’t think we need romantic in that, meaning I’m not romantic enough-ok, engaging in sexual relations with employees whom they supervise.  I still think that would be, and perhaps if we put discouraging, at least we’re putting some guidelines that this is a workplace and it involves power relations, it doesn’t just involve students but employees too need protection and that’s my suggestion.

 

Harriette Huggins, A&P Assembly Chair: Do you have the copies of the nepotism policy and the affirmative action/equal employment opportunity policies that I gave you?  One of the things that has been disturbing for Staff and A&P is the whole process of being able to police such prohibition and both organizations felt strongly from the beginning that policies that were currently in place, with a little bit of tweaking, is related to Staff and A&P Assembly employees would definitely be covered and we wouldn’t need to mentioned in this.  Everybody agrees that we don’t need to be involved with students, whether we are faculty or staff or administrators, but there is currently underway some beginning revisions of nepotism policies.  There is definition here that talks about family, which will probably be expanded.  I’m not putting words in anybody’s mouth but we’re trying to work through the existing policies and procedures manual for Staff and A&P Assembly employees that would cover these situations and it’s not so much the relationship that’s the problem, it’s what happens as a result of the relationship and how other folks perceive it and problems may arise with favoritism in one way or another.  And we recognize that and we think that revising the manual to cover those situations is a much better way to go.

 

Dr. Bailey: Sadik?

 

Sadik Tuzun, Entomology/Plant Pathology: I am strongly opposing the change.  The reason is that, like my colleague said, this is a workplace.  Now the nepotism policy exists, but today, at present time, College of Agriculture they have their own nepotism policy, which allows husbands and wives working together under their supervision and indeed, they can give raises to their wives or husbands, which will bring the total salary coming into their home, certainly increase the total salary coming into their home.  I think that nepotism policy alone does not handle this kind of issues.  When this policy came through, there was a very long discussion about it and the Senate passed this policy after two days of discussion and I do not understand why we are coming to this policy again which is already voted in the Senate and resolved and because an interest group wants to change it, a couple of sentences in it.  If the sentences stay there, and if they want to work through the nepotism policy, go ahead with it.  But the more protection we have, the better we are and these sentences should be staying there.

 

Dr. Bailey: While Virginia is coming to the mic, let me note, the reason this has come forward, has come back to the Senate is that two constituent groups represented in this body, Staff Council and the A&P Assembly requested that we do so.  That’s the reason.  Virginia?

 

Virginia O’Leary: I guess my concern about this change deals with the force of the prohibition, because what worries me more than anything else is possible retribution when one of these relationships goes awry, which I think is a reality.  Human beings, being what we are collectively, and the question becomes: Do you put this in the handbook that gives someone the force of that document in the, ultimately, were it to come to that, the eyes of a court, or do you keep it at the procedural level where it doesn’t have the same force and so I’m speaking against accepting this change for that reason because my concern is protection.  We’re all on the same page, I suspect, about the need to protect.  The question is, how do we best accomplish that and I guess my feeling is I want to make absolutely sure that the less powerful, regardless of which unit within the institution they are affiliated with, are always afforded the best possible protection.  And I just want to make one other comment because in the text of the material about policy in general, I don’t know if we ever resolved the issue of sexual orientation and I want to urge us to include that as a protected category.  Thank you.

 

Scott Phillips, Theater: I just have a question, purely informational.  To what extent does Alabama law allow an employer to regulate the activities of adults off the clock?  In other words, if this were to be challenged, assuming it stays the way it is, what legal ground do we have to tell adults they can’t have, associate with each other, not in the workplace but outside of the workplace?

 

Dr. Flynn: I don’t know.

 

Dr. Bailey: Are there any other questions?  Sadik.

 

Sadik Tuzun: I think there’s some misunderstanding.  It is not relations, it is power.  You can date one of your faculty friends, as long as you don’t have any power on that person or you are not the supervisor, you are not paying or anything like that.  So what, who cares?  I mean, we are human.  You know certainly that the problem is the power and the financial issues.

 

Dr. Flynn: The thing about it is that for the resolution the statement is prohibit, so it is about prohibiting the relationship.  I think the underlying issues are power and influence and that type of thing, but in terms of what we’re discussing here, it very plainly states that there’s a prohibition against these relationships and that’s really what’s on the table.

 

Ruth Crocker: I’m going to come back again with my suggested amendment that instead of prohibit, we put strongly discourages.  May I make a motion to that effect?

 

Dr. Bailey: Made, and seconded.  We now have on the floor an amendment.  I’d like to restrict discussion…

 

Dr. Flynn: Ruth, you had also asked for the removal of romantic, is that right, earlier…

 

Dr. Crocker: Sorry?

 

Dr. Flynn: You had asked for the removal of romantic earlier, do you still

 

Dr. Crocker: Oh, I did. No.  Do we want to debate that?  We’ll be here all night.

 

Dr. Flynn: We may be anyway.

 

Dr. Bailey: What we have on the floor at the moment is the amendment.  Is there any discussion on this amendment?  No change on the question of romantic.  Is there any discussion on the amendment?  As I understand the amendment, it would be to retain the stricken sentence with the word changes as indicated.

 

Dr. Crocker: Yes, that’s right, to retain the bit that has been stricken out and just to change prohibit to strongly discourages.

 

Dr. Bailey:  Is that clear?  Is there any discussion on this matter?

 

James Shelley, Philosophy: This is a grammatical point.  If there is going to be a clause about discouraging as opposed to prohibiting, it should go to the end of the paragraph.  I don’t know what it means to violate a discouragement.  It makes sense to violate a prohibition, but not a discouragement.

 

Dr. Bailey: I think I’ll accept that as a friendly editorial change.  We did.  Cindy Brunner…any further discussion on the amendment?  Vote now then on the amendment.  Is this someone now coming to the floor?

 

Roger Wolters, Management: Could you give an example of what constitutes appropriate disciplinary action for a violation of this policy?  Let’s say you have a consensual relationship that’s reported as being in violation of this policy.  What might be an appropriate disciplinary action that would result?

 

Dr. Flynn: I had a discussion with Lynn Hammond about this issue and one of the things that first off would be most logical, if you have two people, one of them being supervised by another, if there’s a way to shift supervision.  Now that may not be the best answer, beyond that it would escalate depending, I assume, depending on the situation that was in existence.  But this is a resolution for a policy, but there is not yet any procedure spelled out.

 

Dr. Crocker: Could I come back with a discussion point?

 

Dr. Bailey: Yes, please.

 

Dr. Crocker: it may not be possible to do this by Roberts’ Rules, but I see the problem grammatically here and I would, it might be best to put in, to suggest eventually, strongly discourages engaging in romantic or sexual relationships with employees/subordinates whose work they supervise, adding this clause: where such relationships are seen I think passive there, can be seen to disrupt workplace relations, in other words, if they’re out at the movies together, it’s not really going to affect…

 

Dr. Bailey: I’m going to suggest, Ruth that you bring that in as a second.  Do you have a comment on the amendment?

 

Tom Smith, Human Development and Family Studies: I apologize, I just came in late from class.  I’m recalling that two years ago I was in the Senate and this was hotly debated.  The Senate worked very hard to come up with the language that we have but also at that time it was suggested that the other two groups on campus really needed to look at this.  And apparently now they have, and we’re back with some suggestions.  What seems to be missing in relation to this amendment and any other, I would speak against the amendment of, on the fly, let’s start changing something that we spent a long time getting the way we wanted it at that time and I would propose that maybe we need a joint committee, representative of these three groups, to go away, work together, seriously think about it from the three perspectives and then come back with something that’s thought through that’s, what we would call in my lingo “board-ready material”.  It’s always dangerous on the fly to do what we’re doing right here and I would speak against that, something as important as this and obviously there’s a lot of feeling about it in all three entities.  It’s a serious issue and I think it demands some serious input from all constituencies and let’s come up with a thoughtful response, which is what I would urge.

 

Dr. Bailey: Thank you.  Before Jenny speaks, who is chair of the Staff Council, I would say that Staff Council, A&P, Senate leadership and others in the administration have been working on this for some time, whether effectively is your judgment.  Jenny…

 

Jenny Swaim, Staff Council Chair: The three governances have gotten together and talked about this in extensive amount of time.  Where we came into the picture is at the Cabinet Meeting at the President’s Office, he turned to us and asked us if we had seen the policy.  At the time we had not and that’s why it’s back on the table.  Our concern was that we were already being told by the Affirmative Action Policy, Harassment Policy also the violation, we had a question about what exactly could that be.  We do have our policies intact that we felt we would be covered under any circumstances and that the way our policies are written, it would protect us as much as you guys, and that’s why we decided it would be more beneficial to take us out of the picture so that we wouldn’t have to go back to all three governances again to be approved.  All of our, I believe Harriette I can speak for your group, also has looked at this policy-campus wide, all the staff and we all agreed on the same situation, to remove that sentence.

 

Rik Blumenthal, Chemistry & Biochemistry: I basically want to reiterate what was said over at this microphone previously.  I think that it’s very unwise for us to be, to take a very important policy like this, as much as I voted against this policy originally, I think it is ridiculous for us to stand up here, make up words and alter this policy with words that were created on the fly as I’m standing here trying to reedit it to get a new intent.  So I’m speaking against any amendments to the initial proposal, in that those amendments are on the fly changes in the wording.  This is much too important a policy for us to be making on the fly wordings and then have to live with them until somebody else finds a problem with the on the fly wording that we just changed.  I think I would vote against this, and support anybody opposing all amendments on the fly.  I think we should consider this original motion, but I don’t think amendments made of wording on the fly should really get much merit, not that I don’t think Ruth may be right about what she saying, I just think that it’s not as well considered as the wording that we had before, which we spent much time working on and apparently the change, which also much time has been spent on.

 

Dr. Bailey: Thank you.

 

Robin Fellers, Nutrition & Food Science: The first sentence deals with relationships between the people named and students.  The stricken sentence deals with relationships between the parties named and employees.  We’re getting ourselves all tangled up over the second sentence, but I’m wondering, aren’t we talking about apples and oranges here?  There are faculty, and certainly administrators, who are supervising employees within the academic setting, i.e. department heads and so forth and it seems as though in that first sentence we’re just talking about relationships with students.  What are we trying to do is my question.  Are we trying to address relationships with students only or are we trying to address relationships also with employees in that kind of setting and if so, it seems like we almost need two different policies, two different similar, but two different policies addressing a. students, b. employees.

 

Dr. Flynn: The proposed change would have this resolution addressing only issues between faculty, administrators, employees, and students.  It would strip out anything dealing with relationships between faculty, staff, just employees.

 

Gary Martin, Curriculum & Teaching: I’d just like to point out that there’s a pretty long distance between strongly discourages and prohibits.  Maybe it should be really, really strongly discourages or something, but it’s really conceptually two different things.  I think with students it’s a pretty straightforward matter.  I think with, when you start talking about employees, faculty and so on, it could become a lot more complex and I think it really speaks to the issue of the improper use of power and there should be very clear guidelines for how that’s dealt with, but I’m not sure that saying strongly discourages really does much of anything.

 

Dr. Bailey: Tony, you’re also speaking to the amendment?

 

Tony Moss, Biological Sciences: Yes, I am speaking to the amendment and I agree totally with the previous statement that Dr. Martin just made.  Unfortunately I have to leave for an important departmental matter so I wanted to catch this on the way out, but that’s my position also.  It’s very difficult to say anything specific about what a response would be in the case of a violation with the kind of wording that’s indicated there.  You know what the response would be in the case of a prohibition.  I think we need to use this as guidance for future behavior and I don’t know, I can’t really see what we would do in a case of strongly discourage, again, how strongly would one discourage such a relationship?  It gets too complicated.

 

Dr. Bailey: Dr. Locy.

 

Dr. Robert Locy, Steering Committee: When we discussed this in Steering Committee, my recollection is that we discussed whether, in fact, did this need to come forward with at least someone here to represent what changes would be made in the Intimate Relations and/or Nepotism Polices, specifically Lynn Hammond, as I recall, and apparently that hasn’t been done which I think is leading to a lot of the confusion.  I think if we had the full package of changes that were taking place so that everyone could see how all of our concerns were represented in all the myriad numbers of changes, I think everyone would have the feeling then that the issues about which we’re speaking and expressing concern are adequately represented in the changes in several policies that are necessary to make this package work they way in which the concern is being expressed needs to work, so I wonder if it’s not appropriate then to consider tabling this until that total package can be brought.  On the other hand, if there are reasons for proceeding, that’s fine.  I’d like to speak against the amendment.  Re broadening the policy is, with the wording changes suggested, inappropriate.

 

Dr. Bailey: Is there any further discussion.  Did I hear…if not, we’ll vote, we’ll go ahead and vote.  If it is…then we’re going to vote then on the amendment, if we have no further…if we have no further discussion, then I’m going to ask Katherine to read the amended version so that we’ll all know what we’re going to vote on and then we’ll proceed to vote.  Is there any further discussion before we do?  The amendment, she’s going to read the resolution as amended and then we’re going to vote on whether or not we accept that amendment.  I don’t know if I stated that clearly.  We’re going to vote on the amendment.  So would you please read what the amendment would sound like if it passed?

 

Dr. Flynn: This is the amendment from the Steering Committee:

 

Auburn University prohibits all faculty, administrators, and supervisors, including graduate teaching assistants, from pursuing or engaging in romantic or sexual relationships with students, both graduate and undergraduate, whom they are currently supervising or teaching.  Violations should be promptly reported to the University’s Affirmative Action Office.  Violations of this policy will be addressed through appropriate disciplinary action.

 

Dr. Bailey: And then?  And then she had the…

 

Dr. Flynn: I excluded the…

 

Dr. Bailey: No, no, no, and then with Auburn University also strongly discourages…is that correct, Ruth?

 

Dr. Flynn: Ok, I apologize.

 

Auburn University prohibits all faculty, administrators, and supervisors, including graduate teaching assistants, from pursuing or engaging in romantic or sexual relationships with students, both graduate and undergraduate, whom they are currently supervising or teaching.  Auburn University also strongly discourages all faculty, administrators, and supervisors from pursuing or engaging in romantic or sexual relationships with employees/subordinates whom they supervise.  Violations should be promptly reported to the University’s Affirmative Action Office.  Violations of this policy shall be addressed through appropriate disciplinary actions.

 

Dr. Bailey: The order’s wrong.  The order was that violations would before the prohibition, before the strongly discourages.  Is that clear enough or does it need to be read?  Ok.  All those in favor of the amendment to this resolution, please signify by saying aye.  All those opposed, nay.  The resolution goes down.  We now are back to the original resolution.  Is there any further discussion?  Seeing no movement, I will ask for a vote on this resolution as proposed by the Steering Committee.  All those in favor signify by saying aye.  Opposed, nay.  I’m going to call it in favor of aye.  Dr. Brunner.  Division of the house is requested.  Rich and Willie, will you please.  All those in favor of the resolution, please raise one hand. 

 

Gary Martin, Curriculum & Teaching: I think we voted on the motion, but I think there's some really important points that came up.  Will there, in fact, be movement to address the Nepotism Policy and so on, is there a process in place that that will happen in due course so that everyone will feel comfortable with the policies that are currently in place?

 

Dr. Bailey: I believe so; the heads of Staff Council and A&P are here.  I will work with them to make sure that is going to happen.  I would hope Lynn Hammond would be here today, she is out sick.  I was in a meeting with Lynn Hammond, John Heilman, and one or two others of the Central Administration.  This was discussed; I have no reason to believe that we will not move forward effectively on that.  I believe the harassment policy that exists is also effective.  If people have concerns about that, please review that policy.  It’s available online and share what concerns you have with that.  Thank you.  Sadik?

 

Sadik Tuzun, Entomology/Plant Pathology: Some colleges, including ours, have their own nepotism policies, which grandfather already wives and husbands who are working together.  How are we going to deal with this issue?  This is conflicting against nepotism policy of Auburn University.

 

Dr. Bailey: Thank you.  I’m already aware of the cases you mentioned.  We’ll talk about that and if there’s an inconsistency between university policy and college policy, I would imagine that university policy would be effected.  Ladies and gentlemen, we are moving late into the day and David King, David; I hate to do this to you-can I ask you to come back at the October meeting?  I hate to do this to you.  I do want to ask because of the timing matter, to ask John Heilman to speak very briefly on Katrina related matters and we’ll probably, unless there’s great interest, we’ll break for the day and leave the Ag Initiative for the next meeting as well.

 

Dr. John Heilman, Provost: Conner, thank you very much and to David King, I’d like to say that I received the material that you sent.  I haven’t acknowledged it before this, but I studied it and appreciate it.  It was a clear presentation so I didn’t want you to think that I hadn’t paid attention to it.  Also I’d say with respect to the Ag Initiative, as you know, Conner, the Senate leadership and I are talking about this on a very regular basis so there’s continuity in discussion between the Senate and the Provost’s office, but I would like to take just a couple of minutes to talk about Katrina.  The university’s position in this, I think, is clear and it’s completely unsurprising that we want to be able to help these people in need through a range of initiatives.  This is being done not only at the university but also through the city and through churches.  In terms of what the university is doing academically, I think our first reaction has been to try to help our students to stay in school and students have been asked to work with their deans to address the specific needs that they have.  As far as other students are concerned, I point out that there are two circumstances that we face that complicate our ability to handle additional students who may want to come to Auburn from other schools affected by Katrina, that is, we start earlier in the academic year that some of the other schools and some of our courses have moved along quite a bit.  A second is that we are in some ways in a very good position of being overenrolled this year so that there is a limited number of places.  That said, colleges are working with students on a case-by-case basis and I think there’s receptiveness to doing what we can.  I know that our students have undertaken a lot of initiatives and I would need to ask someone from Student Affairs to speak to the specifics of those, but I know there’s been a great deal of attention to that by our student body.  With respect to other faculty, they are, interest has been expressed to my office and in a couple of cases, can we try to accommodate faculty from other schools who have been dislocated by Katrina?  Certainly I think the starting point for the discussion has just begun in my office, is that if we have resources available, for example, space, our starting point is that we want to help.  I’d note that as I understand it, many, although certainly not all of the faculty in the affected areas, certainly in Louisiana, are looking to work with schools in Texas.  But that doesn’t mean that Auburn can’t be involved or shouldn’t.  I think that there’s also going to be a second or third wave of perceived need and that’s what I’m thinking of focusing on.  I have received suggestions-very interesting suggestions-pointing out that the City of Auburn has a slack housing market, that the university also has academic resources, a library, information technology available, including distance learning opportunities and could we somehow perhaps partner with the city to provide opportunity for faculty who would want to move here and I say my office is certainly open to those discussions.  We’ve not made a lot of progress on them, I would look to the deans to bring forward suggestions in that regard and I encourage faculty who have interest in that regard to communicate with their deans.  Conner?

 

Dr. Bailey: Thank you.  Any questions for Dr. Heilman?  Thank you, John.  Hang on, Sadik’s got a question.  Did you have a question, Sadik?  Can you come to the mic please?  Sorry.

 

Sadik Tuzun: Just for information, how many of our students have been affected by Katrina?

 

Dr. Heilman: Drew Clark may be able, whether Drew is still here, he’s been looking into that quite extensively and I’d ask him to comment.  Thank you.

 

Drew Clark, Institutional Research and Assessment: Approximately 1590 currently enrolled Auburn students have an address with a zip code in one of the counties identified by FEMA as being eligible for assistance, that is, the disaster area.  Of those, almost all are from Mobile.  130 students come from outside the state of Alabama.

 

Dr. Bailey: Thank you.  Any further questions?  Thank you, John.  I would entertain a motion to adjourn.  Dr. Brunner.  Is there a second?  I see a second.  All those in favor, signify by saying aye.  Opposed, nay.  See you all in a month.